4 elements meditation – not finding the whole

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Home Forums TBP cafe 4 elements meditation – not finding the whole

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    • #2267
      Rik vanKeulen

      I am eager to hear from you how you are understanding what is happening in the 4 elements meditation – like yesterday: going from feeling the finger tip, to the finger, to the hand, to the arm. For me it is mostly at the level of going from hand to arm, although it should likely also happen at the other levels: the mind can’t identify it immediately, it needs time to find it, to recognise the object. I understand, that the arm (the whole, a concept, label) is a collection of its parts, but not the parts. And that our mind knows the concept ‘arm’ immediately, and that apparently the ‘tactile sense’ is not as fast to find the accompanying sensations, which shows that the mind is creating the arm, conceptuality leading the perception. How come this happens to the tactile sense/consciousness, not to the eye sense/consciousness. I have no problem seeing the arm, when someone says arm. Both are sense direct perceptions. Is it just that our tactile sense is not well trained/used like our eye sense, that it also happens with our eye senses, but so fast that we are not recognising it, or is there more to it?

    • #2307
      Manita Roose

      Rik, I saw an interesting video on YouTube. In Dutch
      Universiteit van Nederland
      Waarom jij niet hetzelfde ziet als iemand anders
      Geeft niet echt een antwoord op jouw vraag, maar wel interessant dat we soms zien wat we verwachten te zien. En daar zit misschien de verklaring in die jij zoekt in je laatste vraag.

    • #2310
      Mircea Mocanu

      Hi Rik, my experience is similar with the arising to mind of the concept of 4 elements of the aggregates. Some appear clearer, some in a more undecided manner. When you talk about eye, are you talking about the eye consciousness, or the eye organ, part of the form aggregate? I would say that the tactile is wrapped around the entire body, including the eyes, ear, scalp, etc.

      If it’s about the later, maybe is just a matter of familiarity, clarity over the imputed object. In opposition to the arm, which is highly visible in our field the visual “lens” doesn’t see itself, only in a mirror.

    • #2383
      Ven. Gendun

      It is definitely happening to your eye consciousness as well, for individual photoreceptors are triggered, but these are grouped into distinct categories of phenomena on the basis of your concepts.

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